By Howard Simmons
When my final grad class ended and I was left to work through my thesis alone, unmoored from the structure that classes provided, I found myself turning to podcasts to help bolster my enthusiasm of books, the writing life, and to keep up with the publishing world. I found myself listening to author interviews and audio book clubs anytime I was walking the dog, in the grocery store, or basically any errand that would have normally been audibly occupied by music.
It was through this voracious podcast consumption that I came to my current obsession with Books on the Nightstand, hosted by Ann Kingman and Michael Kindness. Their conversations about books were lively, sincere, and their work in the publishing industry lent them a level of insight that was always interesting. I loved that their passion for the written word is so great that they willingly used their free time to continue to talk about books and the reading life. On top of all that, they also hosted Booktopia, a literary event that ended its five-year run this year.
I was practically giddy when they agreed to answer some questions about their podcast for Hypertext. As you can tell, there’s a level of bias in this piece for which I’m unapologetic. I love this podcast, listen religiously, and am excited to be able to introduce it to future listeners. You can learn more about Books on the Nightstand at BooksontheNightstand.com.
HOWARD SIMMONS: When did you begin Books on the Nightstand? What made you want to start a podcast?
MICHAEL KINDNESS: In 2007, Ann and I gave a book presentation to the customers of one of the bookstores we called on in our day jobs. A person in the audience jokingly asked if we could give a talk like that every week. I wasn’t too familiar with podcasts, but Ann started thinking about how we could share our love of books via that medium. So, the blog and podcast began in March 2008
HS: You both work for Random House. Please tell us more about your jobs.
ANN KINGMAN: Our official title is “Sales Manager,” which is a fancy way of saying that we work with bookstores to help them choose which of our books that they should carry (because you know no physical bookstore can carry everything). In order to do this, we have to know their market (what will their customers want to read?), their staff (a key part of our job is to get the right book to the right staff member so that they can recommend it to their customer), and their store’s business goals and focus. And of course we have to know all of the books that we publish, which books are likely to receive major reviews and publicity, and which books and topics will resonate with the store’s booksellers and customers. I guess an easy way to state it is that we play matchmaker between publisher and bookstore.
MK: …there’s a lot of time spent driving from store to store, and a lot of computer time with emails and our electronic catalogs.
HS:What is an aspect of the job that most people would be surprised to learn about?
AK: I think people are mostly surprised that such a job exists. Most readers don’t actually think about how books get onto the bookstore shelves, and they might be surprised to know that they are pretty much chosen individually one by one by the bookstore buyer, owner, or manager.
MK: I think a lot of people perceive our jobs as “getting paid to read.” In reality, there’s quite a bit more to it than that. I love that I get to read so widely, sampling pieces of hundreds of books per year, and reading, in entirety, the books that interest and/or entertain me most, but nearly all of that reading ends up happening on nights and weekends.
HS: You said in a previous podcast that the number one question you’re asked is how someone can get the job you have. I admit I have wondered that myself. What advice would you give to someone interested in working in publishing? Any warnings?
AK: My first piece of advice would be to work in a bookstore or library if you can. There’s nothing like learning the industry from the front lines. Beyond that, realize that it is an ever-changing industry and that there are all kinds of jobs in publishing beyond “editor.” There are jobs like art designer, sales, marketing, publicity, but there are also jobs for people who love to manage details, for those who love numbers, finance, IT, you name it.
MK: Two important things to remember about jobs in publishing are: 1) there is no single path into the industry and 2) there are many different kinds of jobs within publishing. You could be in editorial, marketing, publicity, legal, design, warehousing & fulfillment, sales, etc. You don’t necessarily need to have an English degree or have attended a university publishing program. I came to RH after 15 years working in bookstores, and I think sales reps are often hired from that field, though some have started as Assistants in the Sales Department. So, unfortunately, there’s no single bit of advice I can give. (And no, you can’t have my job!)
HS: Any warnings?
ANN: No real warnings. In the United States, if you want to get into traditional “Big 5” publishing (the publishers that put out most of the books you’d find in a general bookstore), it is easiest to get a job if you live in or are willing to move to New York City. But there are many smaller publishers located outside of the traditional publishing hubs – you may just need to do a bit of research to find them.
HS: How many books do you read in an average week or in a month?
AK: I will read about 75 books on average per year, start to finish. Some of those are on audio. Beyond that, I read bits and pieces of probably a thousand books a year. Often it’s 20-30 pages, just to get a sense of what the book is, what the author’s style is like, and which of my booksellers will most respond to it.
MK: It really depends on the book and the level of “stuff” going on at work and at home. I read a lot of graphic novels and I can start and finish one of those in a single evening. I also listen to audio books while driving.
I’m not what you’d consider a fast reader. But since I spend most of my evenings reading for a couple of hours my numbers can be pretty large. Last year I read 100 books; this year, I’m on pace to read about 150. But remember, that includes audio books and graphic novels!
HS: In addition to your enthusiastic discussions about books you’re reading and have read, you provide fascinating insights into the publishing industry. What is your opinion on the state of the industry today? How has it changed since you began working as sales managers?
MK: Of course, there are fewer bricks and mortar bookstores than when I started this job 15 years ago. And now, people can read and listen to audio books via their phones and other devices. I try not to get too caught up with industry trends and forecasting. What I see, and what I focus on, is that there are still thriving readers, bookstores, and libraries. Plus, the rise of social media means that readers can more easily connect with fellow book lovers and create virtual communities that sometimes lead to in-person gatherings and friendships.
AK: I’ve been in the industry for a long time, and it’s always changing. Sometimes those changes aren’t as obvious to the general public as something like eBooks, for instance, but it has never been a stagnant industry. I think the current publishing environment is a very exciting time for authors and readers, and thus publishers and booksellers, too. It’s never been easier for readers to learn about books they might want to read; it’s never been easier for authors to connect with their readers and vice-versa.
HS: How do you come up with the podcast topics?
AK: Sometimes one of us will have a topic they want to talk about; other times we’ll look at something that’s been in the publishing news that we think our listeners might enjoy hearing about. We don’t really have a system.
MK: Sometimes we’re stuck and scrambling at the last minute, but usually something we’ve encountered in a store, while talking to booksellers, or in an article seen online will provide a full topic or even a kernel of an idea that we can then turn into a discussion.
HS: Do you have a favorite topic/podcast that you’ve done?
AK: Sometimes there is a topic that I don’t think is interesting enough and it turns out to be a very fun discussion. Those are usually my favorites.
MK: It’s so hard to remember! I’ve had many readers say to me that I convinced them to try reading a graphic novel and now they’re fans. I’m extremely proud of that. (I know that’s not quite the question you asked!)
HS: September was the last Booktopia event you plan to hold. Do you mind speaking about the decision to end it?
AK: I think the short explanation is that we felt we took it as far as we could without turning it into a business – and a business that required more energy and time than either of us had. We had five years of absolutely amazing events, and as word of mouth grew and our 90 spots continued to sell out in literally seconds, we realized we were disappointing more people than we were making happy. I think that’s when we knew it was time to end it.
MK: Ultimately, it came down to time. Organizing Booktopia required a lot of work that had to be done in addition to our day jobs, the podcast, and our families. Each Booktopia event itself also meant several days away from my wife and our two boys. Gathering with readers and authors was always an energizing and fulfilling experience, but I just needed a little less on my to-do list, and Booktopia was the logical thing to let go.
HS: The “Don’t You Forget About…” segment is a great way to remind listeners of books that may have drifted out of the public consciousness. How do you pick which books to recommend?
MK: Often I just peruse my bookshelves, both real and virtual. Sometimes a topic in the news, or an author with a new book out will remind me of an old favorite that needs the spotlight again.
AK: Because I spend so much time in bookstores, almost every day I see books that I’ve loved and have forgotten about, or I’ll mention a book to someone who has never heard of it. That usually inspires my choice for that segment.
HS: The books you talk about each week vary in genre and form, including science fiction, YA, audiobooks, and graphic novels; one of the reasons I listen to the podcast so religiously is that mixture – it makes me consider a book that I might not have even thought about picking up. Do you find that you still gravitate toward a personal type of book naturally or are you conscious about varying what you read?
AK: I really do try to vary my reading, but it’s not really hard because I love so many different kinds of books. Still, if I’m taking a sick day or a holiday, I tend to gravitate to mysteries and thrillers. A Lee Child or Tana French novel is the best cure for the flu that I’ve ever had.
MK: As much as I understand and appreciate the need for diversity, I’m always a little bit wary of artificially directing my reading. Other than our yearly BOTNS Summer Reading Bingo (which I love), I try not to purposely read into certain categories. I prefer to go where my of-the-moment interests lead me. Luckily, my day job always introduces me to authors and genres I likely wouldn’t have come to on my own.
HS: With the end of the year a couple months away, any early frontrunners for your “best of” lists?
AK: Anyone who has spoken to me at all in the last year has heard me go on and on about Hanya Yanagihara’s A Little Life, which I think is the best book I’ve read in the last decade. A nonfiction book that I love is The Invention of Nature by Andrea Wulf, about the scientist, explorer and naturalist Alexander von Humboldt (born 1769). He’s someone who influenced Darwin, John Muir, Walt Whitman, Thoreau, even Edgar Allan Poe, and yet he’s virtually forgotten today.
MK: So many great books I read this year won’t be out until next year. That’s one of the “hazards” of my job. I won’t pick any of those, but I will tell you to remember The Girls by Emma Cline. It will be huge next summer.
Okay, back to 2015. Devotion by Adam Makos is the best piece of nonfiction I read for 2015. It’s a wonderful story of friendship and camaraderie between two Navy pilots leading up to, and during, the Korean War. When one of the men’s planes goes down behind enemy lines, the other makes the decision to intentionally crash to try to save his friend. I think people who loved Unbroken will love this book too.
I’ve been describing Adam Johnson’s collection of short stories, Fortune Smiles, as “punch-you-in-your-gut-powerful.” Johnson won the Pulitzer Prize for his novel The Orphan Master’s Son, and his writing talents again blew me away in these long-ish stories. They all deal with uncomfortable situations that might make you want to look away from the page, but you just can’t stop reading his incredible prose.
To hear recent podcasts of Books on the Nightstand hosted by Ann Kingman and Michael Kindness click on the links below.
BOTNS #354: The family that reads together…
BOTNS #357: Planning ahead to 2016